BLM is after political or financial advantages because of slavery. That star stuff wont last. But there have been other societies with slavery where slaves had more autonomy and a greater chance of buying their freedom. Id say the same to the Black Lives Matter people. From Roots. That assumes an increase in demand. That someone did something 200 years ago means double ought nothing. Ill disparage them. The arguments do you want to get shaken down for several trillion? Prof Olusoga says statues, such as those of slave traders . What has he got to say about that? Whether they are too stupid to think of that remains to be seen. Women such as Elizabeth Heyrick continued to lobby for the abolition of slavery. The publication in 1852 of Uncle Toms Cabin, by the American abolitionist Harriet Beecher Stowe, swelled national sympathy for the plight of black slaves. I agree BIS. Yet theyre so many centuries and generations removed from the crime, everybody involved with the decision-making is long-dead and while the responsible state still exists, in practice compensation comes from taxes paid by citizens who had no part in it all. Forbes magazine's extraordinarily arrogant contributor Tim Worstall Jeremy Corbyn. Latin America for instance. Indeed, third-century York may have been more ethnically and racially diverse than present-day York. Then a young teenager, he was driven out of his council home, together with his grandmother, mother, two sisters and younger brother, by a sustained campaign of nightly stoning of their windows. Like the Nigerian slavers who enslaved and sold the slaves, you mean? Video, 00:02:30. Two men managed to escape and were rescued, but not before my great, great, grandfather was beaten, starved and worked to death, his body thrown into the jungle for the animals and insects to dispose of. Both groups today, especially the former, could reasonably claim historic persecution has reduced their present income and wealth. Sure. Might, in this case, being 100% of the debating point. But Ill tell you what, slavery and human sacrifice, still awful. You dont have esoteric discussions with paedophiles any more than you would with serial killers. Olusoga is making an appeal to white guilt. One sporting event that has captured your imagination I was fortunate enough to get tickets to see some of the basketball at the London 2012 Olympics, so my brother and I went to watch the GB vs. Spain game. Get back to me in seven years, when youre ready to order. Well whats the point of pretending it doesnt also induce moral disgust in me, just in case someone mistakes it for guilt, or an admission of liability? It could have ended earlier, but the planter interests in parliament defeated William Wilberforces attempts. But werent they lucky compared to the other Germans in Stalingrad? Theres no point pretending Europeans who profited from either the transatlantic slave trade or the use of slave labour in the Americas were somehow doing a favour to the slaves involved, even if, as it happens but their owners could not have predicted, their surviving descendants ended up financially better off on average than the counterfactual of remaining in Africa. Yet American slave-produced raw cotton continued to feed the 4,500 mills of Lancashire. It wasnt always so & it may not be in the future. There is no reason to think one system was more or less brutal than the other. I do not see what is different between a plantation in Africa and a plantation in Virginia. This is because forgetting slavery means forgetting its victims. Some other buyer would have taken them if they werent shipped out, and Western (or Arab) traders were just changing the ownership and location, the sins of the slave-raiders being theirs alone to bear. Anti-black riots broke out in Liverpool that year. The historian tells Michael Segalov about getting up early, reading George Orwell, taking his dog George for a walk, playing his guitar "I have," he admits, "a habit of . Make sure it doesnt happen in the least costly way. The Westman Islands of Iceland have an interesting history in terms of European slavery a major rebellion of presumably mostly Irish (Westmen) slaves was put down there in the typically brutal Scandinavian manner, hence the name, but in the 1600s the local inhabitants were themselves enslaved by Barbary pirates and taken to Algiers, from where a few were ransomed back and one wrote about the experience. David Olusoga meets Janice Haber and her family, the descendents of Jewish . She wasnt interested in my academic pursuit. Its a replay of the ecology nutters & the trannies. All in all your typical West African is far more likely to have ancestral connections to the slave trade than your typical Brit. So he calls himself a Geordie. Hundreds of White women raped every day. Video, 1894 shipwreck confirms tale of treacherous lifeboat, BBC Radio 3 - Drama on 3: The Meaning of Zong, BBC Bitesize: The Zong 1781-1783 - The triangular trade, during a debate on Black History and Cultural Diversity in the Curriculum, Harry and Meghan told to 'vacate' Frogmore Cottage, Explosive found in check-in luggage at US airport, Fungus case forces Jack Daniels to halt construction, Rare Jurassic-era bug found at Arkansas Walmart, China and Belarus call for peace in Ukraine, Fire knocks out half of Argentina's power grid, Havana Syndrome unlikely to have hostile cause - US, Starbucks illegally fired workers over union - judge. Its entirely possible to think something was awful without feeling the slightest twinge of guilt or personal responsibility. In 1861, the Economist stated that nearly four million people in Britain depended directly and indirectly on the cotton industry; a fifth of the entire population. In America few were castrated, which is why there are now >40 million descendants there. For almost 60 years, there was impasse. Cotton was a completely different slave economy. But that ignores how the demand of outsiders led inevitably to far more supply being provided. I doubt that they are now firmly united in a common cause. Abolition was the first mass philanthropic movement in Britain, and it ended the slave trade in 1807. We do not know for sure. Thy did not try to grow or raise the next generation. One issue about Westerners buying slaves via a chain of commerce that often ultimately involved Africans selling other Africans at traditional slave-trading locations (there was some slave-raiding by Europeans directly, but rarer) is that the extra demand distorted the market, led directly to more armed slave-raiding expeditions against rival tribes and so on. I suspect that whether records could prove it or not, its overwhelmingly likely to be true, especially since high-status individuals tend to make a bigger contribution to the gene pool. Check out the trailer for Peter Pan & Wendy, an upcoming live-action movie directed by David Lowery. Britain was happy to force the Bevan Boys down coal mines. . My first reaction, years and years ago, was thats awful. This year, return to Neverland. Some were sold to other African tribes and the rest kept as slaves. Various among the societies that were agglomerated into Nigeria were more or less involved in that slave trade from the supply end. In fact he is a biased political campaigner working to attack and do as much damage to Britain as he can. Reasonable estimates have some 50% of the inhabitants of the Sokoto Caliphate as late as the late 19th cent being slaves. Sure. See, five years ago I wouldnt have written a crass comment like that, but hey, times achanging and as financially independent with some FU-money, I dont have to worry about cancellation culture, LOL. This is indeed tu quoque. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jxc5ENT8ajg, https://www.history.co.uk/shows/the-real-vikings/articles/eyewitness-to-the-vikings, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vestmannaeyjar, https://www.historytoday.com/archive/normans-and-slavery-breaking-bonds, https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/domesday/world-of-domesday/order.htm, Apparently Essay Mills Must Be Made Illegal, Why Oxfam Can Go Boil Their Heads Over Vaccine Patents, The real point about climate change is how cheap the solution is, The excellent Tim Worstall- The Register, Tim Worstall is a darn good economist- Don Boudreaux, Tim Worstall, you pendant- Polly Toynbee, .more sensible than most right wing nutjob bloggersBob Piper. They also ran a slave trade to the Ottoman empire and white slavery in the north without any help from Europeans. In the system that made Sloane wealthy, black women sought out herbs, plant species that he carefully identified and categorised, and used them to induce abortions, determined as many were not to bring into the world children who would be born items of property and destined to live short, brutalised lives. MyBurningEars August 30, 2020 at 3:31 pm Deliberately shipping that many people that far in order to participate in a newly-created society whose economic system was designed, pretty much from the ground up, around slave labour?, True that unlike certain other examples of slavery, you werent likely to be killed as part of a religious sacrifice or as part of your owners funeral., But there have been other societies with slavery where slaves had more autonomy and a greater chance of buying their freedom.. I havent said anything about my personal sense of guilt or responsibility. What would happen to that money, who knows, but as its (or was) your money, thats between you and your grifter of choice. Olusoga is just getting even because he was attacked by the right when he was a teenager. Obama had none. Needless to say they should pay us reparations for this too. And that still stands even if there really are a bunch of torturing murderers out there too. The South Sea bubble, the greatest financial crash of the 18th century, was intimately connected to Britains dealings with Africa, though this is rarely acknowledged by historians. people like Olusoga would have to pay their share of the greatly increased taxes While I dont think they persuaded anyone, they did shift perspectives a bit. Sign up to receive information regarding NS events, subscription offers & product updates. Theres an argument about judging people by the standard of their times, though even in the 1500s moral and religious objections to the slave trade had been made and the rationale of crimes against humanity is that some things are so abhorrent they could never truly be legal no matter what moral code the perpetrators justified themselves with. Instead he has become a campaigner working to discredit Britain, the country that has educated him, promoted him and brought him fame and acceptance. This seems rather unlikely. Read about our approach to external linking. The historian and producer said he wanted to. The BBC is not responsible for the content of external sites. Inflaming the reader has no purpose relative to slavery. I have a peeve about the BBC genealogical show Who do you think you are? which I dont know whether has been inflected upon the Left Pond. As a nation, we still have only a dim understanding of the slave system that funded Sloanes collecting. There is an alternative argument that it is their ancestors who were wronged hence deserve compensation and as descendants theyre entitled to an inherited share (so their portion depends on how many slaves at what position in the family tree) plus interest, regardless of how well theyre doing now. In that moment, his interest in history overlapped. They did not pay for them and were going to kill a lot of them anyway. But Muslims were enslaving white Europeans into Africa long before the Atlantic route, usually castrating the males. Of course if a rule was instituted that only people with white skins had to pay taxes, it might happen. arguments are pretty weak since relying on a doctrine of virtues of the fathers risks implicitly accepting sins of the fathers.. But maybe they did not. (If the likes of SMFS believe Western society will fall apart without a return to traditional Christian-inspired values, I suggest they either don a pessimists crash-helmet or just cling on and enjoy the ride to Hell in their top-gear handcart. In the late 1800's and early 1900's, 30,000 Jewish migrants from Russia and Eastern Europe settled in Manchester. Good point, I wonder how he squares the obviously comfortable living he has writing, opining and broadcasting about slavery with his principles. Pope Nicholas V gave his blessing, so long as the Vatican benefited. Just as how in the 16th century the anti-slavery voices in Europe were overwhelmed, and in the 19th century the abolitionists won out. I dont think the traders can be given a pass on this front either., Just means they werent alone in being in the wrong.. The vast majority of Americans are not guilty. Married an American GI after the war. It began to alter (slightly) the history curriculum at university level: the first undergraduate one-year course on black British history and culture was taught at the University of Warwick in 1984. Should black history be taught all year round? More than a million copies were sold in Britain cheap pirated versions reached a mass readership. My argument is that Africans were probably happily killing each other for women before the West turned up. That is not true. But those were in those long-lost days when democrats and republicans could talk to each other and agree to disagree while both leaving the conversation a little the wiser. It is a good deed that must not go unpunished. However, it applies to at least 80% of Americans. If you had spare cash or could borrow, investment in slavery was a sure winner, never mind slave rebellions or hurricanes that destroyed cane fields. 2023 BBC. He is the author of the 2016 book Black and British: A Forgotten History, which was awarded both the Longman-History Today Trustees Award 2017 and the PEN Hessell-Tiltman Prize 2017. They arent going to concede anything. There is the Push argument and the Pull argument. (At least in our society) Get over it. Such sources give his writing freshness, originality and compassion. I had a girlfriend whose mother was a Nazi. Indeed in many cases, whose ancestors didnt even live in France or England at the relevant time. It isnt happening now. When I met her, ~1995, I started asking her questions about the war, as I thought she was a fabulous resource of information. But its still awful, even on a historical scale. Their demands should simply be refused. Olusogas ancestors will have participated in the capture of sale of slaves in Nigeria. I can then give him the details of other descendants, he can apologise to and compensate. 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